Leaving Hostaway because of their booking fee?

No OwnerRez Help Response

Scott J
Dec 6, 2023 2:04 PM
Joined Mar, 2019 197 posts

I'm getting more and more disenchanted and frustrated with OR's diminishing, and at this point for me, completely non-existent customer support. It seems that when Ken was the solitary support staff, OR had the best CR response of any business I ever experienced. Now that several others have been added to the CR team, I'm finding response times to have on average slowed way way down and now to zero response.

On Friday I made an urgent help request after I received an alert from OR telling me that my email domain was no longer verified, and I got no response until very late Monday night from Adria, who said that OR doesn't reply to help requests on weekends (really?) and that my issue was resolved. I replied that this was not the case and that I still need to understand why the DKIM record I created a long time ago with my host is no longer working. But I got no reply to that. So I sent another reply to her Tuesday morning requesting help, and still no reply.

Shortly after that I got another alert from OR telling me again that the DKIM record can't be found, so I forwarded that to help@ownerreservations.com, asking for help again with this, and again I got no reply.

I've gone to Namecheap, my web host, several times since, and am discovering that every time they or I add the DKIM record using the Hostname and Value provided by OR, my website gets an SSL issue, and so is blocked, which is currently the case, so I have to again delete that record, which again causes my email to stop being verified. And after five days I've yet to get a reply about this from OR support.

Ken T
Dec 6, 2023 2:28 PM
OR Team Member Joined Aug, 2019 1706 posts

OwnerRez is not a domain registrar, and has no control over your DNS settings, so our ability to provide support for DNS issues is quite limited - in some cases we can't even see everything, so can only guess at what is going on.

You are not using an OwnerRez Hosted Website, so we have no visibility or control over whatever might be the issue with the SSL and your website.  I see that NameCheap is also your domain registrar, and you said they were providing your website hosting too, so that issue is entirely internal to them, and their tech support ought to be able to provide assistance in resolving it.

As of this moment, you do appear to have all the required DNS settings for verified email, including the DKIM.  However, if NameCheap is having issues as sounds like is the case, there could be intermittent outages of those settings which would indeed cause those warning emails to be sent.

Unfortunately, OwnerRez does not yet have the capability to provide 24/7 support as we would wish - we are growing in that direction, but that will be some time in the future.  Requests made on Friday may indeed be addressed on Monday, if we're not able to get to them before the end of the Friday workday.

 

Scott J
Dec 6, 2023 3:24 PM
Joined Mar, 2019 197 posts

I asked for your support on this because, while adding the DKIM record verifies my email, portal.ownerrez.com getting in there was causing issues that I didn't understand.

"Requests made on Friday may indeed be addressed on Monday."

- Late Monday evening?

However, Adria never replied back to my reply to her, and it's mid Wednesday, and I still haven't gotten any intelligent reply via your ticketing system. I appreciate you providing me with some clarification via this format now, however.

It would seem that, especially since everyone works remotely, you could have staff available at least part-time on weekends to help with urgent issues, and then have their days off during week days. For many of us there's no difference between weekends and weekdays, we have to be on call if not on duty every day.

Ken T
Dec 6, 2023 3:37 PM
OR Team Member Joined Aug, 2019 1706 posts

It would seem that, especially since everyone works remotely, you could have staff available at least part-time on weekends to help with urgent issues, and then have their days off during week days. For many of us there's no difference between weekends and weekdays, we have to be on call if not on duty every day.

by Scott J – Dec 6, 2023 8:24 PM (UTC)

Well, we kinda do - it's not uncommon for some of our staff to take advantage of flex-time, so as to work less during the week and make it up on the weekend.  So it is not unheard of for tickets to be responded to then.  But, we do not want to promise that, since there is no guarantee that this will occur, and even if we do have someone working all day on the weekend, there's no telling if that will be enough to keep up with the load.

As you observed earlier, we are rapidly adding support staff to, ideally, reduce wait times. However, because of the standard of excellence that we seek in our support, it takes a good deal of training and experience for new staff to reach peak productivity.  Meanwhile, we continue to grow - the support volume now is many times what it was when I was the only one.

Scott J
Dec 6, 2023 3:44 PM
Joined Mar, 2019 197 posts

Thank you, Ken.

Undercard_Wonder
Jan 13, 2024 9:32 PM
Joined Nov, 2023 61 posts

I'm a new user who has put questions to support on four or five occasions now. 

The good: the responses are intelligent and helpful

The bad: I'm waiting close to a week for a response, and I have had two problems that materially affected my business.

That's way too long.  Even with my horrible county building permit department I can get on the phone and wait two hours if I really have something urgent.  Even at the DMV I can get something done in one day. 

I'm concerned when I hear that you are rapidly adding staff to answer support questions, because at...

[Link Redacted for security]

... you don't seem to hiring support personnel, only a sales and demo position. 

The weak support response is the only real weak point I see. But it's a really big one. 

Katie and Sean B
Jan 14, 2024 4:20 PM
Joined Feb, 2022 10 posts

Agree on response time. It use to be same day or next day. Now waiting 3-5 days for a response and then when you reply it’s another 3-5 day before they reply again. Drags issues out forever. Ken was great at responding ASAP. Definitely miss that. 

Paul W
Jan 15, 2024 6:08 PM
OR Team Member Joined Jun, 2009 848 posts

@Undercard_Wonder:

We're not happy with our response times either, believe me.  We are burning a lot of calories on it - both in handling response the best way we can, and figuring out how to do it better.  It is hard to be fast and thorough at the same time.  Because OwnerRez is a complex system, it can take months to get new people up to speed.  But the burden of it - getting better - continues to weigh on us.

Most DMVs and county permitting offices have a narrow category of questions they answer from thousands of people.  Many people call, but the answers tend to be the same kind of things.  Here at OwnerRez, the questions are wide and complicated.  We have 8 verticals - channels, websites, accounting, PM, etc - and each of those have many settings and scenarios.

In recent days, our CS department has hired 3 more people and moved an additional person, internally, over to Helpdesk.  The 3 people won't all be responding to tickets, but they will help alleviate the burden in other areas.  New people take training, but we have some already-OR-users coming on board.  We have had some CS personnel get up to speed in a month or two, but others can take 6 months to get up to meaningful velocity.

A couple of clarifications...

The link you referenced is a test environment, so I'm not sure how you got that.  This is the live careers page:

https://www.ownerrez.com/careers

The only open position now is Mockup Artist which is something for the Product team.  As I said the other 3 positions for CS were already filled, and we wrapped that up in just the past few days.

Our Engagement team is not a sales or demo position.  It's a phone/video team that handles support issues live with customers.  If you send a ticket into Helpdesk, asking for a phone call, the Engagement team is who you will talk to.  They handle hundreds of support calls every month in addition to their other duties.

I hope this response doesn't come off as defensive. You are correct - having a 3-4 day response time is completely unacceptable to us too.  Just trying to offer some transparency with where we are on this side.  As I write this, we have had a number of meetings about some large changes in our overall process and ways we are going to break the back of it.

Undercard_Wonder
Jan 15, 2024 7:19 PM
Joined Nov, 2023 61 posts

You don't seem defensive at all, just overwhelmed. I appreciate that you are taking your time to train additional support people well; throwing warm bodies at scaling problems is a sure path to customer dissatisfaction. I also understand that it takes a while to train someone. I have watched about 75% of your videos (very helpful), and most of your help pages (also helpful), and it's clearly a complex system dealing with a complex set of variables, most of which don't even apply to me or, I suspect, to any other individual user.

While don't have a solution for you except to do more of what you're doing (hiring and training support personnel), I can see a things that you might want to think about:

- The vast majority of your support questions are probably either (1) from new users or (2) questions that lots of people have.  Can you train people more quickly on those questions and throw them into the fray, then if the question isn't a common one, have a more expert person pick it up?  You are probably already be doing this, but in case you are not it might be an avenue to explore.

- I was introduced to OwnerRez by a guy on Fiverr when I was trying to decide which channel manager to use.  There are a bunch of these guys on Fiverr.  I can't tell you what the other ones are like, but the guy I worked with knew OwnerRez extremely well, how it compares to your competitors, and how it works with other software (e.g, pricing engines).  He was well aware of all the configurations and how they worked in practice. Maybe you can reach out to some of them (I'm sure they exist on other freelancer sites too) to do tutorials and answer questions for a discounted fee, and you guys make up the difference. Since my guy was $50/hr, if you paid him $25, leaving the customer to pay $25, that would be a sweet deal for the consumer, and cost you a lot less than hiring new people. This would work well especially with new users. You know what a support call costs, so you can do the math. There may be other hidden experts out there who can help -- possibly some of your advanced users with a philanthropic bent, or who themselves want to make a little money by helping out your clients.  While I don't want to say Intuit is at all a company you want to emulate, one of their successful (in my opinion) initiatives was to expose their users qualified consultants. You can certify them if you want by giving them a test.

- You can tell people where they are in the queue.  Like a progress bar on a slow download, it doesn't speed things up, but it's great to know when you are likely to get an answer, so you can bookmark it in your mind and move on to other things.  Place in line, estimated time to an answer, all of these things let you customer know that although you are behind you are working on it and you'll get to them, and give them the time of an expected answer.  This will calm everyone down and it will also make your issues transparent to your user base. Is that a good thing? It is when your customers are pulling for you, which your customers evidently are.  If you're circling the drain I wouldn't recommend this, but I don't think you are.

- I wasn't aware at all that you could actually get a phone call with someone.  When I called in, I got a message saying to leave a message, and someone would get back to me. I thought it was going to be answered by an email, and since I'd already sent in an email, I hung up.  You might want to make it clearer that someone can get a real phone call if they leave a message.  And if you are doing phone calls, why can't I schedule one from the OwnerRez site?

- For burning questions, either a per-call fee. Everyone I know hates these things until they really need help, then $50 seems like nothing. Every single one of the issues I've had so far (except one), were my fault.  I misconfigured something, I misunderstood something, I left something out.  Every time the solution was pretty easy once I "got it." I suspect that this will be the case with most people.  If I had had the opportunity to pay $50 for 15 minutes of someone's time, or even $100 for 1/2 hour, I would have done it, because my mistakes with OwnerRez cost me at least $500 due to an error with my discounts.  Many things can wait, but some things can't, and people are willing to pay, on a purely rational basis, for quick solutions.  I would have.

I hope you don't take what I'm saying as aggressive or that I'm unhappy, because I'm not. I have lucked out to find a fast, scaleable solution backed by people who obviously care. That's absolute gold in a world of shoddy companies cutting as many corners as they can in their quest to increase users so as to sell themselves to the bigger fishes.  I'm merely making some suggestions about how to handle growth. 

Undercard_Wonder
Jan 15, 2024 7:20 PM
Joined Nov, 2023 61 posts

P.S. I found that URL by googling "careers at ownerrez" or similar.

Ken T
Jan 15, 2024 10:31 PM
OR Team Member Joined Aug, 2019 1706 posts

These are all good thoughts!  We've been looking at some of them, and I'd like to communicate some of our thinking.  Please don't in any way take this as promises, the last word, or pushback - just thoughts from ongoing discussions as we seek to improve.

The vast majority of your support questions are probably either (1) from new users

A fair number, yes, but, last year we added the free Jumpstart call that is offered to all new clients.  This certainly does require support resources, but, it's proved to vastly diminish the routine new-client questions we used to get, as well as getting new clients up and running faster.  Naturally, new clients still do request many tickets, but they're no longer mainly routine, as discussed next.

or (2) questions that lots of people have.

That used to be true, but these days is much less so, because the overwhelming majority of common questions are found in our support docs.  Most of our clients want answers NOW, and if a quick search of the doc gets them that answer, it's faster than any support ever could be.  We routinely see whole categories of question vanish when a support doc is added or extensively updated - an ongoing effort where, yes, there is much more to be done, but they've come a long way.

You're no doubt familiar with the concept of macros, canned responses, and support scripts that are used for common support-ticket questions.  While we do have such things, there are very few of them that are useful for providing actual answers, because nearly all of our tickets are slightly unique and require actual research and consideration.

Can you train people more quickly on those questions and throw them into the fray

Even an apparently simple question can often contain hidden and non-obvious complexities, a very common example being "Why was this booking charged X?"  There are so many factors that go into it that what seems like a simple calculator-question not uncommonly ends up with the engineers digging in the code, and a doc update to cover an obscure corner case with some particular channel.  Therefore, we have to do thorough training on topics; newer staff answer tickets that appear to fall into a topic they've been trained on, and pass over tickets on other topics for more senior staff.

I was introduced to OwnerRez by a guy on Fiverr

I'm not super familiar with Fiverr myself, but I'll take a look.  However, I do understand your point.  The Unofficial OwnerRez Facebook Page is a similar great resource for expert advice, and we know of other knowledgeable OwnerRez assistance provided via TaskRabbit.  In fact, we've hired staff discovered in both places.  :-)

We've long thought about an OwnerRez training credentialing program, something like MSCE certification, or as you note, Intuit.  There's a lot of steps to get there, but it would absolutely be valuable to have a list of known, trusted, independent experts we could recommend.  If we put our name on something, though, we want to make sure we can guarantee the quality and performance.

You can tell people where they are in the queue.

Well, this kind of harks back to your point about putting newer staff on easier questions.  We do this to some extent - at a certain level of training, when they've proved competent in some areas but not yet others, they can seek out tickets in the queue that are within specified parameters and answer them.  But this necessarily means that where you are "in line" doesn't automatically speak to when you'll get an answer, because you might be skipped over by an agent that's not yet trained to be able to handle what you asked.

I wasn't aware at all that you could actually get a phone call with someone.

Generally, we encourage emails, because those will nearly always get a faster response - our calls are scheduled in advance.  If you ask for one, you'll get one, but it may be a few days.  This scheduling is done via the ticket system though, not a standalone scheduling page.

For burning questions, either a per-call fee.

This is a regular topic of discussion.  Without going into details, we believe that, if we promise to provide something for a special fee, we owe it to our clients to do it well.  So if we are going to offer paid priority phone support, it better be top-quality (which means only highly experienced and knowledgeable staff) and it better be available promptly (which means we'd better have plenty of staff to meet the demand).

While we seek to provide fast excellent service, I would rather provide excellent service that is slower than we'd like, as opposed to fast service that's not very accurate or thorough.  That said, recent delays will not remain as they have been.

Undercard_Wonder
Jan 16, 2024 1:14 PM
Joined Nov, 2023 61 posts

Thanks so much for your thorough and candid response. I do appreciate that this is a priority for you, and that makes me feel good about being a customer.  Given the complexity of the system, it's a commitment and I'm pleased with my choice.

Rachel P
Jan 17, 2024 3:45 PM
Joined Mar, 2023 21 posts

Sorry to hear.  What is the general wait time for help?  I put in a question this am and have not heard back.  Thanks, Rachel 

Scott J
Jan 17, 2024 3:48 PM
Joined Mar, 2019 197 posts

3-5 days. 

Paul W
Jan 18, 2024 10:24 AM
OR Team Member Joined Jun, 2009 848 posts

Thank you, @Undercard_Wonder, for that response.

There's some great ideas there - some we've already considered, but others that are new or different that we should discuss.  I have added some of your points to some of our weekly team meetings where helpdesk/leadership discuss the running agenda.

I appreciate your support.

 

Undercard_Wonder
Jan 18, 2024 12:29 PM
Joined Nov, 2023 61 posts

I appreciate your support.

by Paul W – Jan 18, 2024 3:24 PM (UTC)

I appreciate your support as well, so much that I want more of it :-)

Rachel P
Jan 21, 2024 8:29 AM
Joined Mar, 2023 21 posts

When someone responds it is super helpful and friendly. It is the wait time that is challenging. I am still waiting for my live website to become “secure”. We have the indication that it is unsecure and do not have the https feature that OR reportedly provides. I am not able to share my link yet and this has been frustrating as I am so reliant on support. . I understand the wait times but wonder if a more streamlined system could be developed. I wish i understood more and could remedy this myself, but still learning…

Paul W
Jan 22, 2024 11:28 AM
OR Team Member Joined Jun, 2009 848 posts

Hi Rachel P!  I noticed your reply here which led to me finding your account and ticket conversations with helpdesk.  I just responded to you there too, but your website is good to go and live.  I explained more about what happened on that side.  We hear you super loudly on support.  It's kind of ironic - I just left a helpdesk meeting a few minutes ago where new processes are being implemented (last week and this week) to change things up.  Thanks for your patience. 🙏

Ed T
Jan 27, 2024 2:27 AM
Joined Nov, 2023 24 posts

Scott,

I've read and understand your frustrations with the delay in support times.  Reading the second response from Ken T. saying that your issue is not with OR but with your domain is fair BUT it sure would be nice if users could be informed of such things promptly.  I abused support when I was onboarding asking for lots of support.  Then as all experienced hosts should, am trying to make use of the forums now.  One thing I make a habit of is trying to respond to 2 posts for every 1 question I post.  I'd suggest that all users attempt to do the same so that OwnerRez can address other issues.

OwnerRez/Ken - There are several posts out there that have had 0 responses.  You should recognize that owners are reducing the email load to customer service by posting to forums.  As such, I'd recommend that if no one has responded after a minimum time frame you read and comment.