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I have one property. I am on AirBnB and VRBO and have my own website. So I have the 2 week trial and I still don't get it. This seems very confusing and I don't think I am just that dumb. It doesn't seem very intuitive. I have tried to see where there are help docs and slug my way through them, but honestly is this for the big timers and it's just too much for the little guys out here?

I emailed the rep over there who had responded to my initial inquiry and he said that interchange-plus is definitely something they can (and do) offer their larger accounts. If I grow to the point that it would make a material difference in my costs, he indicated we can talk about it at that time.

He made it pretty clear, though, that there isn't much they can do about discounting the plan on lower volumes (either the monthly fee or the discount rate) because the VR industry is considered a "high-risk" industry in terms of underwriting. I understand and don't disagree--I'm just both seeking to make sure I get a good deal now (whether that is favorable pricing or a clear explanation of why paying a slightly higher price is worthwhile) as well as ensuring that if I do make this a long-term relationship, things can work out well downline.

Hi Chris,

Thanks for weighing in!

I think Lynnbrook is definitely worth it for the low end depending on how much you value your time. The aggregators (Stripe, PayPal) you are comparing them to make your life difficult when it comes to:

- reconciliation (fees taken out with each disbursement)
- don't understand the VR product and may freeze funds or drop your account (this has happened to users)
- won't fight disputes/chargebacks for you because See Previous

Paying a small monthly fee is nothing compared to losing a $500 or $1k booking because the aggregator sided with the guest. You can recoup that by filing in small claims court but again - what is your time worth.

As an analogy, many users gladly pay $10-35 per booking for damage protection that they rarely use. Why? Because it's worth the extra couple hundred bucks a year when that moment strikes and the guest breaks a window and cancel their credit card.

Question - have you asked Lynnbrook about interchange plus pricing? I'm wondering if they already have that. They seemed pretty amenable to most of the stuff we've talked to them about. It's possible that they already do that, if specifically asked.

Seems to me this could be solved if Lynnbrook went with an interchange-plus pricing structure. More expensive card to process? We (the merchants) pay more. Their risk of having to absorb an expensive card is minimal (and we also save when someone uses a cheap-to-process card, like a debit card).

The only two "buckets" I wish Lynnbrook would offer were:

-Low-volume: $0/mo, 3% flat
-High-volume: $15/mo, interchange-plus

Right now, I'm low volume (because most of my bookings come through HomeAway et al.) and would gladly use them if they offered basically the same thing that Stripe and others offer (a relatively higher rate but no monthly fee), but knowing I was supporting a company who is intensely familiar with VR. I would then gladly transition to that kind of a high-volume plan once I build my portfolio out a bit more and/or my direct-mailing list of previous customers who want to book direct to the point where it makes sense to pay a monthly fee to take advantage of lower rates.

Unfortunately, for low-volume operations, Lynnbrook doesn't make sense at this point, and for high-volume ones, there are interchange-plus processors out there whose rates beat the socks off of them, so they kind of don't make much sense for either end of the spectrum.

My $0.02, anyway...I'm still trying to decide who to use and have talked with Lynnbrook and like what they have to say, but I'm trying to decide if it's worth spending $180 extra a year on them when other options work out cheaper for me at this time (due to my low direct processing volume).

Thank you for the update Paul.

Hi folks,

I wanted to drop an update here since we have a bunch of people who have been silently subscribing to this thread by email.

I talked to Lynnbrook and went over pricing. Here's where everything is at...

We were wrong to universally declare that the in-house gateway would make it so that the account is always free if you don't use it. That was (and still is) Lynnbrook's goal, but there's not enough data in place to be able to universally offer that to everyone, large or small, at this point. We talked at length about this.

That being said, Lynnbrook's price IS WITHOUT ANY QUESTION CHEAPER then what the major aggregators (like PayPal, Stripe, Braintree) offer over all. We already know that, having sent a number of users their way. No one has come away with more expensive rates.

In talking with Sharon (the CEO of Lynnbrook) we discussed the ways in which they vet each user's situation and work to get the lowest fees possible relative to that user. It's not easy to do this as a universal "one size fits all price structure" when you focus on the vacation rental market alone.

Keep that in mind - Lynnbrook is dedicated to supporting vacation rentals. They understand the booking "product". Most generic credit card processors won't approve processing at all if the "product" is delivered 60 or 90 days away.

The ultimate question is how to offer the same pricing to everyone when each user can vary so much in use, geography and customer-base. Every merchant account carries with it certain costs - core banking costs and the cost of underwriting risk - and there is a lot of variability between users.

For instance, vacation rental owners in North Carolina tend to have all American customers who use American credit cards, while vacation rental owners in Florida have a lot of international customers who use cards that are more expensive to the processor. The North Carolina VR is cheaper to underwrite than the Florida VR.

If we have many small users sign up who end up not using their merchant account for part of the year, there has to be enough larger/active users to offset the core costs of the smaller users.

This is true with the major aggregators too (PayPal, Stripe, Braintree) which is why their processing rates are 3% and why they shut off dormant accounts quickly and treat everyone the same (whether you're selling vacation rentals or blenders).

Lynnbrook is working on some pricing buckets - which we're waiting on before we begin marketing efforts - to lay out what to expect, but again they will mostly likely BE CHEAPER than what you're using now, particularly if you're with a major aggregator. That, we can guarantee!

The base monthly fee will most likely change as well. For the moment, they've asked that smaller users (processing < 50k/year) pay $15/month. Most monthly minimums are $20-25 so that's better than the industry average.

SOME OTHER POINTS TO CONSIDER:

1) Good processing is not just about finding the absolute cheapest rate. Once you get a chargeback or dispute from a guest (and you will if your business goes long enough) you'll learn this lesson quickly. Cheap rate is near the top, of course, but you want a processor who fights for you as well.

2) Your processor should understand the vacation/short-term rental "product" and be happy to support it. Even though Stripe or Braintree tolerate vacation rentals now, they may not in the future and you may get dropped. We've already seen this happen with Braintree. Their underwriters frequently tell some users that short-term rentals aren't allowed but then other users are approved. Sometimes, they have special criteria like you have to be the owner of the property and can't be managing it for someone else.

3) Your processor should do gross deposit (fees taken out at end of month). None of the major aggregators do this. They send deposit with the fees already taken out. This is extremely frustrating when reconciling your bank account because none of your deposits match up to your booking records.

We will have more information coming soon; I'm just dropping this update here because I saw a lot of subscribers clicking to watch this thread so I know there's some concern. Also, I had a free second. :-)

Happy weekend to all,

-Paul

Subscribing to be notified when in-house gateway will be free with Lynbrook.

Update. Spoke to the rep. $15 is not a gateway change, he calls it "credit card" charge. so them advertising 2.59% + 10c is not really a 2.59% once you figure in $15 monthly charge. perhaps would make sense to switch for those who have higher amounts than me. In my case at this point not worth switching over $49 or so dollars a year.

so whomever is interested:
$2.59 + 10c per transaction
Plus $15 monthly.

I believe that's using Authorize.Net as a gateway. We are still cleaning up our integration with them. We're actually going to be surfacing a sign-up form on our site (OwnerRez side) that you can use without going to them directly (unless you want to). We'll reach out and see what the deal with that is, but I'm 100% sure that was them giving you Authorize.Net gateway since our support of their in-house gateway hasn't been announced. If you respond back to them, mention that you want to use the in-house gateway which OwnerRez has said is free and see what they say.

I used their contact form and I mentioned that I was interested in using Lynnbrook with ownerrez. The response email I received:
Thank you for reaching out to our company regarding credit card processing through OwnerRez.

The cost to use our system through OwnerRez would be:

** $15/month
** 2.59%
** 10 cents per transaction

If you would like more information on the integration or our services please feel free to give me a call.

What's the $15 fee for? The gateway should now be free since we now support Lynnbrook's in house gateway. Also what % rate were you quoted?

I ran a calculation on using Lynbrook (with gateway fee of $15 but lower %) vs Stripe (no gateway fee and 2.9%) on bookings using my current payments totals for the year (approx 68K). The savings for me would be $49 using Lynbrook (granted I do not have all my bookings volume yet for the year, but still). The $15 gateway fee kills the savings....This may work better for those who have more volume/higher priced rates.
Assumptions made: all transactions are credit card.

I see they offer e-check which is great. Wonder if we can offer discount somehow for paying by e-check vs credit card.

Yes. They're at lynnbrookgroup.com

We have to sign up with Lynnbrook 1st?

Lynnbrook gateway is now out and ready for use. Look for it under Settings > Payment Methods > Add. We aren't announcing it yet because we have some marketing tie-ins that are still being worked on, but you can go turn on the gateway part. Enjoy!

I like your amenities icons

Melissa, we do not have a specific timeframe/ETA for the Lynnbrook gateway, but it's rising rapidly in importance. Since we started recommending them recently, we've been inundated with requests to get the gateway portion going because we have users who need 5 or 10 merchant accounts (they process as a PM for multiple users). So they can't do Lynbrook because they'll get hit with 5 or 10 gateway fees every month. There are also users who have always had free-if-not-used processing accounts and don't want a gateway that costs. So it's rising rapidly in importance and will probably be looked at later this month or next.

Super easy to integrate.

http://jimandkelly.us/

But we are also testing the hosted site option. I like the layout

http://jim-kelly-s-vacation-rentals.hosted.ownerrez.com/

we need to decide which way to go.

I have used Lynnbrook Group for the last year and their customer service (and rates) are fantastic! Any time frame as when you would anticipate the integration of the Gateway account so it is free?

Thanks!
Melissa

Thank you, Not confused at all. I had over 14 years of experience working in IT for a CC issuers LOL.

So i will wait till Lynnbrook becomes integrated (meaning not or little monthly fee) b4 considering switching. Not wanting monthly fees was the primary reason for choosing Stripe vs others.

I see what's going on. You're getting their special "Invoice" software rate that it shows on this page:

https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/5068-what-are-square-s-fees#pricing-for-software-products

If you weren't using the Invoice feature, it would be 3.5%. If the customer pays with a "card on file" for a particular invoice, it goes up (strangely) to 3.5% as well.

Generally speaking, "Keyed" means when anyone physically keys it in (you or the customer). There is typically no distinction between you keying it in and the customer keying it on their side. Industry wide, this is know as "card not present" because it's not physically being handed to the merchant for swiping.

I didn't realize that they had a different price for using their Invoice and Online Store tools.

------------------

On the bookings that already paid, the future payments (or security deposit) would be taken on whatever the official credit card merchant account was at the time it is processed. So if you change merchant accounts, any new payments (even on old bookings) will be on the new merchant account.

That being said, we are careful to make sure that refunds and security deposit releases use the OLD merchant account - or specifically, the merchant account that they were originally linked to. This is necessary because the new merchant account won't be able to find the old transaction to refund or release. But our system handles all that for you under the covers.

Confused now? :-p

No, because it is not "keyed" . keyed is when renter gives ME their CC # and I key it in. Higher risk- higher price. When I generate invoice and send to renter, and they enter their CC on their end (I never handle the CC - lower risk) it is 2.9%
I understand using new merchant acct going forward for new bookings, but If I have bookings that already paid the deposit but balance is not due yet (deposit was paid via Stripe), will balance be changed via Stripe or the new merchant account?
I guess i will wait till your suggested merchant account processing gets integrated into OR.

thanks

Maybe you have a grandfathered in rate at Square? Here's the pricing page on their website:
Pricing page: https://squareup.com/pricing

To transition to another merchant account, you just go get the new merchant account set up and add it to OwnerRez in the settings area.

To add another merchant account payment method, go to Settings > Payment Methods > Add Payment Method and add it just like you did for Stripe. Change the "use on properties" field to check off the properties you want the new one to be used for and that's it. From then on, as guests accept quotes/make payments, it will use the new payment method instead of Stripe. That "Used on properties" field dictates which payment method is the official credit card one for the property.

You can add as many credit card payment methods as you want. We have PMs that have dozens of them so that the credit card transactions flow to different bank accounts depending on the property.

I do not know where you get 3.5% for square. it is 2.9% for non swiped non keyed (invoiced).

yes I mean for one off stuff. for example, my AirBnB or VRBO renter who already paid via VRBO or AIRBNB wants to add an extra night to their stay. I do not do that via AirBNB or VRBO, I just invoice them for extra night cost via Square. or sometimes I have VRBO renter who booked via VRBO and paid deposit via VRBO, and now wants to split balance payment 3 ways (between 3 families) - I send them 3 separate invoices for 1/3 of amount each via Square. Granted I do not need all that for bookings that are processed via OR because I can simply send them payment link and they can pay however they want. I have also used Square when there was some issue with VRBO payments and renter could not make their payment of balance - I just invoiced them via Square.

Situations like Renter forgot their jacket in my VR. they want it mailed back. My housekeeper charges shipping/handling to mail it back. I send invoice via Square to cover shipping/handling.

I do not think I process 5K worth of transactions consistently every month via OR ( I use stripe with OR).
Also, if I already have Stripe currently(and prescheduled payments for future rentals), how would I transition to other provider (Lynnbrook)for example?

@BlueMtnCabins:

Give Lynnbrook a call. Their rates should be way lower for you - like 2.3 to 2.5%. We are working on integrating their in-house gateway which should be free (or close to it) so your monthly would be nothing. However, at the moment, they will put you on Authorize.Net for $15/month I believe. When we get their in-house gateway added to OwenrRez, your monthly should be free. Either way, call and at least ask them. Great group over there.

Braintree and Stripe are both 2.9% with no monthlies. Not sure what level of invoicing you're needing but I know that they both handle recurring billing. So you can set up a payment schedule and request payment and that should be built in.

Square is charging you 3.5% which is quite a bit higher. If you can get that 2.5% rate from Lynnbrook, you're talking about a difference of $50 per month which more than covers whatever the gateway is monthly.

When you say invoicing and pre-scheduled, are you talking about outside of VR bookings? For vacation rental stuff, we provide an invoice (quote) for guests and do payment schedules - does that not work for your needs? I guess that's the thing that it comes down to ultimately since it dictates what all processor you can go with. If there's a invoice/software feature you're needing, let us know so we can kick it around on this side!

www.smoky-mountains-cabin.com

where can I find cheaper WITHOUT monthly fees? most want $20 monthly fee. I do not use typed or swiper, obviously, because I am remote to my vacation rental and all transaction take place via invoices.
I think their pricing is about the same as Stripe (2.9%) which I use via OR but stripe does not offer invoicing. I could not find anything cheaper, that has invoicing, prescheduled invoices AND ==does not== have monthly fees.
Monthly fees make no sense for me because there are some months when most or all of my bookings happen to be through VRBO or AirBnB for example, I would not be using my processor/gateway at all. Paying monthly fees makes sense if you consistently process large amounts thru gateway every month. My rental rates I guess are no that high to warrant monthly fees.

@BlueMtn: But it's expensive! 3.5% for typed in or 2.75% for in person... ouch. You should be getting a rate closer to 2% for in person. I agree that Square is easy and simple though. Square exploded in use awhile back because of that. PayPal tried to copy their mobile swipe reader but has't managed to catch up. Don't use them for online though - you'll pay way too much for that. Other groups will get you down around 2.5%. Another thing - better to pay a small monthly gateway fee ($15-20) and get a cheaper transaction rate then have no monthly fees. The difference in, say, 2.3% and 3% is dramatic when you process $5k or more per month. You're doubling or tripling that gateway fee

square does not integrate with OQ but is is good for standalone or one off transactions.